Cornwall Council rejects full 'joint venture' project, opts for compromise

4:08pm Tuesday 11th December 2012 in News

CORNWALL Council is to enter into partnership with BT to run some of its services in an attempt to save money and secure jobs.

However, the controversial 'joint venture' project will only go ahead for a few services after councillors rejected plans for a much larger deal.

Under the new plan, IT services, document management, payroll, and tele-health services will now be handed to BT to run.

The decision was taken at a meeting of Cornwall Council at New County Hall on Tuesday.

Councillors were given three options to choose from: *Option one, where services would be retained in-house and controlled solely by the council.

*Option 6A, where services including procurement, benefit payments, libraries and one-stop shops, human resources, IT services, mail handling and payroll are to be run in a joint venture with BT.

*Option 6E, or the 'light' option, where fewer services would be included in a smaller deal with BT.

An initial vote saw option 6A rejected, with 71 councillors voting against the plan, and just 30 voting for.

A vote on keeping services in-house was then rejected by 50 votes to 46 before option 6E was eventually adopted.

During the debate, members displayed very different attitudes towards the proposals.

Porthleven and Helston South councillor Andrew Wallis said: “The report says the in-house option is viable, so why don't we support that?

“In these tough economic times the in-house option is low risk, it builds on the successes the council has already made, and there is no complex contract.

“These contracts have cost many other authorities dear, let us make sure that does not happen to Cornwall.”

Falmouth Boslowick councillor Mike Varney told the meeting: “It is a no brainer as far as I am concerned.

“It is quite easy to say I would prefer in-house staff, but the reality is that it is about actually delivering that.

“I do not want to be the person who has to tell them they are losing their jobs, and I am convinced that is what is going to happen.

“This is a chance to engage, it is not privatisation, it is a partnership.

“I believe we need to go for the full monty, and I urge other members to do the same.”

Former council leader Alec Robertson, who lost his job after a vote of no-confidence over the joint venture proposals, attended the meeting, but did not speak.

Comments(37)

Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
4:18pm Tue 11 Dec 12

I am glad that libraries and one stop shops will not be outsourced. If BT were to have taken on the running of those services then how long would it have been before some were closed as they are not profit making entities.

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subtleposter says...
4:45pm Tue 11 Dec 12

Glad libraries and OSS aren't going over?! Do you have a clue what you're talking about?!!! OSS and Libraries are part of Shared Services. This includes the Contact Centre that you ring with ALL of your problems.... Shared Services being left out of the Venture means that they are most likely going to have to make cuts from these services FIRST. I'm a Council worker in this section, and I am now VERY scared for my job.

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Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
5:08pm Tue 11 Dec 12

subtleposter wrote:
Glad libraries and OSS aren't going over?! Do you have a clue what you're talking about?!!! OSS and Libraries are part of Shared Services. This includes the Contact Centre that you ring with ALL of your problems.... Shared Services being left out of the Venture means that they are most likely going to have to make cuts from these services FIRST. I'm a Council worker in this section, and I am now VERY scared for my job.
I did not think libraries and one stop shops were included in option 6E which is the option that has been voted for, I thought they were only included in option 6A which was rejected.
Well it would appear to me that the majority of Councillors obviously believe this is right choice or else they would not have voted for it. Do you have any evidence that cut backs will be made first to those services which are not included in the JV ie libraries and one stop shops. This is called democracy.

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subtleposter says...
5:18pm Tue 11 Dec 12

You completely miss-read what I wrote, with them not being handed over to BT they are at higher risk of going. We were told in meetings that if it doesn't go ahead these services will, most likely, be top of the chopping block.... as I said previously, this is my sector that's being left out. BT wanted to integrate post offices with the libraries to make the services more accessible, not to get rid of them... That would've meant greater security for OSS's as they are now pretty much all integrated with the libraries. As I said before. I'm now very scared for my job, and I'm not the only person....

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Poldark says...
5:54pm Tue 11 Dec 12

well what a surprise!
All the fuss of deselecting the old leader and some of his motley crew for daring to suggest the very idea, and along comes the new leader etc and they do almost the same by giving away our services to BT.
If they think they will save jobs we shall see Subtleposter has every right to be worried, because once the CC stop supporting them and try to pass it on to the town councils then will come the crunch, as town councils don't have any money.
I am sorry you have this terrible worry hanging over you, and hope your unions have the matter in hand, it seems there is still money to pay the councillors a few thousand quid rise next year but not enough to keep our services in Council hands, surely with hiving off these services we can hive off a few CC's also after all less to do now, there's an idea!

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jane-w says...
5:54pm Tue 11 Dec 12

Subtleposter whilst I appreciate your concerns I do think that merging the post offices with them would have been a wrong decision despite over the years seeing the library staff cut and cut. Also we had the council tax payments dept moved from the library to the one stop shop which is now at completely the other end of our main street. I dont remember seeing the one stop shop in Redruth library either. I hope that your job stays safe.

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subtleposter says...
6:25pm Tue 11 Dec 12

Most of them have merged, check the website.... the merge was looking to save my department and I was in full favour of the thick JV, for the record, it would of protected my contract and my pension, BT would of handed back over to CC after 10 years and had to provide 500 new jobs across cornwall minimum, these had to be filled by Cornish people as well.... a thin JV will probably not be favoured by them and they may decline it, this means even less money for CC services than they already have, this topped with further cut-backs from central government, to be fair I'm not just worried about my job, I'm worried about rural Cornwall and it's public services as a whole due the thick Joint Venture not going through. I mean come on, how is a public sector division meant to survive when it's facing some of the biggest Whitehall cuts out of all local governments and the one real offer to pump money back in gets rejected by people who don't understand the full gravity of the situation. The Councillors were invited to BT presentations... as far as I'm aware barely any of them actually went to hear what was really being offered, and the fact it's already working successfully and has been for a few years in other local governments across the UK.

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Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
6:55pm Tue 11 Dec 12

subtleposter wrote:
You completely miss-read what I wrote, with them not being handed over to BT they are at higher risk of going. We were told in meetings that if it doesn't go ahead these services will, most likely, be top of the chopping block.... as I said previously, this is my sector that's being left out. BT wanted to integrate post offices with the libraries to make the services more accessible, not to get rid of them... That would've meant greater security for OSS's as they are now pretty much all integrated with the libraries. As I said before. I'm now very scared for my job, and I'm not the only person....
May I suggest that you may well have been told at meetings that if JV dosnt go ahead in full that these jobs would likely be top of the chopping block, but it has been known for people to scare monger in order to encourage people to vote the 'preferred' way by those in favour of something. I completely sympathise with you if you fear the loss of your job, however, there are those that feared for their jobs if JV did go ahead fully with BT.

I fail to see how anyone could possibly integrate the library with the post office in Helston.

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jane-w says...
7:07pm Tue 11 Dec 12

Poldark I agree with you about the raises for councillors. I think it would be better if increases were voted on for councillors and MPs by others such as the electors based on performance etc. I do think that the public should have been consulted on this so that they could make an informed choice about the services which concern them and also about the employment of people. I know how many staff used to be employed and how many are now by the council and I fail to see how people are meant to carry on working and showing loyalty etc when they are under the threat of unemployment. I hope as Poldark says that the unions are able to sort through this mess and to all the staff affected by this I hope and pray that you do not have live under this black cloud for too long.

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Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
7:07pm Tue 11 Dec 12

The one stop shop in Helston has the registry office incorporated with it, would BT have proposed that people get married in the post office or the library I wonder. Or sit in a public post office to register a death.

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Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
7:19pm Tue 11 Dec 12

I think BT needs to sort out the services it currently supplies, it appears to me to be unable to provide a call centre for its customers now that is considered satisfactory by many, I personally get fed up talking to someone who appears to be abroad and cannot comprehend what I am saying.

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Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
7:37pm Tue 11 Dec 12

Why did BT feel the need to offer Broadband for next to nothing for staff if JV went ahead. If their offer of JV was so great why offer an incentive like that.

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ronedgcumbe says...
9:42pm Tue 11 Dec 12

Subtleposter I do hope this has not turned out as bad for you as you feel it might. I feel 6a would of been the best option to preserve services as the only way to save money is cutting services.

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ronedgcumbe says...
9:54pm Tue 11 Dec 12

Sorry that should of said " save money now. Think I will post with my laptop in future and not this phone.

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Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
6:58am Wed 12 Dec 12

Over half of shared service deals elsewhere have failed. Take a look at Somerset for a start. Was it worth Cornwall taking that risk.

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Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
9:03am Wed 12 Dec 12

Having read the full council document which as far as I remember was 134 pages long, I believe the option they have voted for is the next best option to the in house option. I found pages 60 to 80 the most interesting.

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ronedgcumbe says...
10:02am Wed 12 Dec 12

Very true Gill Martin but I do think that in Cornwalls case in the short term at least 6a was the way forward. As a heavy user of council services I realise now that more cuts are now on there way and worry about where they will be. Hopefully council staff will get the support they deserve.

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ronedgcumbe says...
10:15am Wed 12 Dec 12

In an ideal world in house is the best solution for council services but we are living in hard times. Only time will give us the answer but I hope we have not jumped out the frying pan into the fire.

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cornishblonde says...
1:12pm Wed 12 Dec 12

Isn't it lucky for Councillor Varney that he never actually has to sack anyone on the staff, as there is an HR department to do that for him. That's at the moment of course, maybe HR is for the chop too and he and/or other councillors will actually have to face the people he votes to put out of work? If he wants to save the Council tax payers some money he could always refuse to take his expenses - how much did he get last year? £23,643 according to the Council website. The highest fees paid to a Councillor was over £42,000 of council tax payers money. Did we get value for money does anyone think?

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Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
3:13pm Wed 12 Dec 12

One Falmouth councillor has already declared he will not be taking the increase in allowances if re elected, as for Porthleven and Helston South, Mullion and the Lizard, I personally think we did get value for money.

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Alistair Campbell says...
5:40pm Wed 12 Dec 12

Councillor Varney , as always makes decisions that the people of Falmouth do not want , in 2013 he stands for office , lets make sure we vote in a person who makes the right decisions for the people of Falmouth

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Poldark says...
8:32am Thu 13 Dec 12

Alistair Campbell wrote:
Councillor Varney , as always makes decisions that the people of Falmouth do not want , in 2013 he stands for office , lets make sure we vote in a person who makes the right decisions for the people of Falmouth
Hear, hear, it makes you wonder why people support this man, and the other Falmouth Indpendent CC's, one of which hardly attends a council meeting ,but still takes his allowance,,
As for the one who voted in the increase and says he will not take it why vote it in then?
Is this really the calibre of Councillors Falmouth want?
They make a lauging stock of Falmouth!! ,,

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Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
9:41am Thu 13 Dec 12

The increase in Councillors allowances was to enable those people within society to stand for councillor that may otherwise be unable to do so due to financial restraints. If someone votes for something for the benefit of others but chooses not to gain from it themselves if they feel that they are in a financial position to not take it, then I believe that is a good thing. In my opinion it would selfish not to vote for something that may benefit others just because it would necessarily benefit oneself. Not everyone has an ulterior motive for trying to do something right or good for the benefit of others.

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Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
9:45am Thu 13 Dec 12

My previous post Should have said- in my opinion it would be selfish not to vote for something which may benefit others just because it may not particularly benefit oneself.

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seacom says...
8:30pm Thu 13 Dec 12

Gill unfortunately even the new allowance on its own is not a wage to support a household let alone mortage.Most present councillors are retired a few run their own buisness and the rest have jobs to fit in around council buisness.From what i have read in the press it is usually financially better off councillors that point the finger at those who have regular jobs with hours to match.This situation does not mean those working are less competent or milking the allowances.

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Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
9:19pm Thu 13 Dec 12

seacom you say that most present Councillors are retired, that is my point, by increasing the allowance it opens the door to younger people and those less finacially able to stand for councillor, obviously an allowance is not necessarily meant to replace a wage from a job, but many young people and others are on low wages and could not afford the financial commitments of a councillor without a decent allowance. Of course there are the plus sides to those who do not have a separate job because they obviously have more time to commit to being a councillor which I personally think is beneficial. In an ideal world I would make a Councillors job a full time paid job because that way I think they would be able to commit fully. I do not think for one minute that any of the Councillors are less competent or milking the allowances just because they may be working. It is purely an objective view, that I believe that by offering a decent allowance it will provide opportunities to those financially less well off.

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Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
9:35pm Thu 13 Dec 12

Incidentally, being on a very low income myself I have found that it impinged on voluntary work that I have engaged with in the past. I used to do voluntary driving for the age concern, but the only money one gets barely covered fuel costs, and I found that I could no longer sustain the costs of extra wear and tear such as brakes and tyres, particularly when I did out of county hospital runs. So that is a case in point, if I was financially better off or had recieved a decent allowance it would have allowed me to continue. It is not a case of making money, it is a case of not being personally able to subsidize voluntary positions.

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Poldark says...
12:29pm Fri 14 Dec 12

Just what Cllr Varney is advocating now he is about to retire, funny that, as for paying younger councillors re: vast wages to make a career out of politics and to climb the ladder paid from council taxes dream on, we haven't got the money.

No the best idea is to cut the amount of CC's and to have 2 to a town that's the most sensible idea, after all take a look at the attendance register, they get the full allowance whether they attend once a month or is at every meeting, I know of one who rarely attends'

Also look at the expenses MV has clocked up and he's not the only one by a long shot .

The public should also be made aware of the amount the cabinet commands I believe the sum to be near 30k, all paid by the tax payers whether the service we recieve is good, bad or indifferent!

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Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
7:33pm Fri 14 Dec 12

If you cut the amount of Cornwall Councillors then presumably those left would have to take on more commitments and sit on more committees, attend more meetings and put in more time, how then I wonder would those with other jobs have time to do this, and if they did not have jobs then we would probably end up with either all retired Councillors or Councillors that are doing it as a full time commitment without the support of a decent allowance to reflect their additional commitments.

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molesworth says...
9:21pm Fri 14 Dec 12

You're so right Gill. Pay peanuts and you get monkeys and it's wrong for any organisation to take advantage of well meaning volunteers.
Also, I work in the private sector, and as far as I can see unions ceased to have any real power in 1985 and indeed, I only hear unions mentioned in the context of the public sector which has been bolstered by our taxes for years and is riddled with restrictive practices over staffing and inadequacies as far as I can see. There are even people who still believe a job is for life and they are entitled to keep their job at all costs. I've been made redundant 3 times (out the office on the same day) and never taken it personally. It's been for failing business reasons or a change of management due to a takeover or the loss of a major client. It's worrying at the time but each and every time it's led to something better and more interesting. I recommend it. Don't be a victim 'subtleposter'. You've just got to have some gumption and belief that you can do something else and I guarantee you'll be happier seizing control of your own destiny.
In fact, why don't you leave on Jan 1? All the anger and worry about losing your job will disappear overnight and you'll wonder why you stuck it out working for the council for so long. Anyone reading this got any leads for a job for subtleposter? Let's help 'subtleposter' run free!

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ronedgcumbe says...
12:08am Sat 15 Dec 12

Meanwhile back in the real world.

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molesworth says...
7:21am Sat 15 Dec 12

Unfortunately, in the real world we have always had to deal with job loss and career change in a way that those who are used to working in the public sector have never had too. There are more jobs out there right now 'since 1994' (Radio 4) at a time when the public sector is cutting back. I'm just saying you don't have to wait for the inevitable. Seize your destiny! The unions are never not going to pull a rabbit out of a hat and make everything as it once was...

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ronedgcumbe says...
1:41pm Sat 15 Dec 12

I would normaly agree with you molesworth the public sector has been overpaid and over protected for to long.
But I think if you have a real job at the moment, stay put. Unemployment in cornwall at the moment is still on the rise and the only work this that is available is part time or totaly unnesesary. For example the ever expanding employment department at Helston council

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Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
4:40pm Sat 15 Dec 12

"The ever expanding employment department at Helston council"

Lol that's funny, although I shouldn't laugh really, I think that is a very dodgy / debatable route they are considering going down. What should be remembered is that it is the Councillors that could take any possible fall out from this decision at the next election, where as the town management team are nice and safe as paid employees.

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ronedgcumbe says...
10:01pm Sat 15 Dec 12

I just hope some of these councilors don't think they will be unopposed next may, they won't. Helston has some very good councillors but passengers are not required.

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Gill Zella Martin 09 says...
8:02am Sun 16 Dec 12

Helston has got some very good Councillors and in my opinion can build on their achievements, however, I believe this proposed expansion of the town management team is a perfect example of an issue that I believe should be put to the vote by local residents. If Councillors do not listen to residents then how can they expect support to be reciprocated.

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ronedgcumbe says...
10:00pm Sun 16 Dec 12

Ideas like this should not realy need a vote by the electorate. The town council should call a halt to this sort of unnecessary spending.

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