Cornwall Council's plan to tax the poorest branded 'obscene'

Cornwall Council’s plan to tax the very poorest in the county to help fill a council tax black hole has been branded “obscene” by Secretary of State Eric Pickles.

The council says that the Government announced earlier this year that local authorities would be required to create their own localised council tax support schemes as part of the changes to the national benefits system and at the same time councils were told that the funding for the scheme was being cut by 12.5 per cent. This means that Cornwall faces a shortfall of £6 million at a time of increasing pressures on its budget if it does not make changes to the existing scheme.

Around 53, 815 people in Cornwall currently claim council tax benefit. Under the current means tested scheme people can claim up to 100 per cent of council tax benefit. As the Government has said that pensioners must be protected from a reduction in benefit, any change will affect around 26,729 working age people.

The council says that after considering a range of options, including continuing with the existing 100 per cent scheme and reducing the level of maximum help available to 70 per cent, members of the cabinet have “reluctantly” agreed to support a recommendation that all working age recipients of council tax benefit to pay an additional 25 per cent contribution towards their council tax.

“While we recognise that this recommendation will cause difficulties for some people in Cornwall, the stark truth is that the council does not have the money to pick up the bill for this” said Council Leader Jim Currie.

“We also feel strongly that it is inappropriate to ask local taxpayers to subsidise the national welfare system and so, reluctantly, have no choice but to support the proposal to reduce the maximum entitlement to council tax benefit to 75 per cent”.

However Mr Pickles has said that making people on very low incomes pay struck him as “obscene”, adding: “I thought it was a singularly unambitious scheme, just taxing people who are in receipt of council tax benefit rather than helping them get into work, dealing with mistakes and fraud."

He added: "Their job is not to tax the poor. It's to help the poor.”

He also raised the prospect of ordering councils not to impose council tax charges on the unemployed.

The council says that it was carrying out “detailed research to identify the groups which would be most affected by this proposed change”, with Mr Currie saying that officers were working closely with the Citizens Advice Bureaux and the voluntary and independent sector to ensure that information and advice support was provided to the most vulnerable people. The authority is also developing an exceptional hardship fund to support people in the greatest need.

Members of the Cabinet also agreed to monitor the impact of the new scheme and the welfare reforms in general in Cornwall and to provide regular reports to the Government.

The recommendations from the Cabinet will be considered at the meeting of the full Council on January 13, when the final decision will be made.

 

Comments (31)

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11:36am Tue 18 Dec 12

stupidperson says...

Must raise the money to pay their wages and expenses .
Must raise the money to pay their wages and expenses . stupidperson
  • Score: 0

2:23pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Gill Zella Martin 09 says...

Councillors don't get wages they only get allowances and expenses. The sooner they change the cabinet system the better.
You cannot get money out of people that they just do not have. Have Cornwall Council not noticed the food banks we have in the county.
Councillors don't get wages they only get allowances and expenses. The sooner they change the cabinet system the better. You cannot get money out of people that they just do not have. Have Cornwall Council not noticed the food banks we have in the county. Gill Zella Martin 09
  • Score: 0

2:24pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Gill Zella Martin 09 says...

Double the council tax on second homes.
Double the council tax on second homes. Gill Zella Martin 09
  • Score: 0

2:25pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Gill Zella Martin 09 says...

Means test pensioners.
Means test pensioners. Gill Zella Martin 09
  • Score: 2

2:36pm Tue 18 Dec 12

ElevenEleven says...

I am not normally the biggest fan of Cornwall Council however they have their hands tied here. How can central government cut the funding for this and then complain when the council pass that on?!

I agree with Gill - tax second homes higher. However the council are not currently allowed to do that under current legislation.
I am not normally the biggest fan of Cornwall Council however they have their hands tied here. How can central government cut the funding for this and then complain when the council pass that on?! I agree with Gill - tax second homes higher. However the council are not currently allowed to do that under current legislation. ElevenEleven
  • Score: 0

3:32pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Gill Zella Martin 09 says...

I think it is wrong of Mr Pickles to say that Cornwall Council should deal with helping people on council tax benefit get back into work and deal with mistakes and fraud. Some people claiming council tax benefit are working but on a low income, additionally where is all this work?
As for fraud, I personally think Cornwall Council does address this issue, they are currently checking on all the claims of single persons council tax discount, and frequently there are reports of benefit fraud including council tax fraud being reported as discovered and dealt with. Does Mr Pickles really have any idea what happens within Cornwall and Cornwall Council.
I think it is wrong of Mr Pickles to say that Cornwall Council should deal with helping people on council tax benefit get back into work and deal with mistakes and fraud. Some people claiming council tax benefit are working but on a low income, additionally where is all this work? As for fraud, I personally think Cornwall Council does address this issue, they are currently checking on all the claims of single persons council tax discount, and frequently there are reports of benefit fraud including council tax fraud being reported as discovered and dealt with. Does Mr Pickles really have any idea what happens within Cornwall and Cornwall Council. Gill Zella Martin 09
  • Score: 0

6:04pm Tue 18 Dec 12

jane-w says...

I think houses where they are let out to students should be charged business rates as many people do make a living out of renting these houses yet because there are often up to 6 or more students living in them they pay no council tax its disgusting!! Means testing is the only way. I was on council tax benefits and often had unexpected visits from the council to check on me. The trouble is too many people are too clever at hiding what money they do have.
I think houses where they are let out to students should be charged business rates as many people do make a living out of renting these houses yet because there are often up to 6 or more students living in them they pay no council tax its disgusting!! Means testing is the only way. I was on council tax benefits and often had unexpected visits from the council to check on me. The trouble is too many people are too clever at hiding what money they do have. jane-w
  • Score: 0

6:08pm Tue 18 Dec 12

juwhite says...

What gets me is the amount of people claiming the single allowance who have the money to pay their council tax - why just because you live in your house alone should you be entitled to a discount if you live in millionaires row?? I know a woman who lives alone can afford to pay without discount yet has this and gets the care for her husband paid despite been very wealthy only because she hides her money well. And yes I have notified the authorities.
What gets me is the amount of people claiming the single allowance who have the money to pay their council tax - why just because you live in your house alone should you be entitled to a discount if you live in millionaires row?? I know a woman who lives alone can afford to pay without discount yet has this and gets the care for her husband paid despite been very wealthy only because she hides her money well. And yes I have notified the authorities. juwhite
  • Score: 0

8:05pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Gill Zella Martin 09 says...

I used to claim council tax benefit for being on a low income which I still am, however in accordance with the 'capital' rules, when my circumstances changed slightly simply because I moved,(even though the money is now needed for home maintenance) I notified them and requested my benefit was stopped. I never had any visits from the council unless I was out when they came, they would have been quite welcome though I have never had anything to hide. I agree with jane-w some people do hide what money they have and do not declare it. Also agree with juwhite it should all be means tested.
I used to claim council tax benefit for being on a low income which I still am, however in accordance with the 'capital' rules, when my circumstances changed slightly simply because I moved,(even though the money is now needed for home maintenance) I notified them and requested my benefit was stopped. I never had any visits from the council unless I was out when they came, they would have been quite welcome though I have never had anything to hide. I agree with jane-w some people do hide what money they have and do not declare it. Also agree with juwhite it should all be means tested. Gill Zella Martin 09
  • Score: 0

8:43pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Gill Zella Martin 09 says...

The government have already screwed half my money out of me because I can only use half of the national insurance contributions that my late husband paid for years if I live long enough to claim a pension that is. So he paid all that money for years for nothing, and I will be left with a pension shortfall. So they may as well stitch me up with council tax as well.
The government have already screwed half my money out of me because I can only use half of the national insurance contributions that my late husband paid for years if I live long enough to claim a pension that is. So he paid all that money for years for nothing, and I will be left with a pension shortfall. So they may as well stitch me up with council tax as well. Gill Zella Martin 09
  • Score: 1

10:06pm Tue 18 Dec 12

molesworth says...

I always thought that politicians (generally low rent types and self serving in my jaundiced opinion) and tax policies should be separated. Expert politically independent economists should decide on the best way to gather tax, not politicians looking to win votes. I've never understood why non-expert-in-anythi
ng-politicians are considered the best people to decide on what our tax rates should be and who pays or benefits. ('Rule Britannia' fades up) I am lucky enough to pay the top rate tax and am more than happy to do so as our NHS, education system and public services are what makes me proud of this country and what makes this country, mainly Cornwall, a great place to live. (There's more to life than money, golf and sunny weather). And yes, I have known what it is to be poor and eligible to claim benefits, it's not desirable even if you're a shirker, so I would never blame someone for doing so if they really needed to. (Fade out 'Rule Britannia') Don't let politicians near our money!
I always thought that politicians (generally low rent types and self serving in my jaundiced opinion) and tax policies should be separated. Expert politically independent economists should decide on the best way to gather tax, not politicians looking to win votes. I've never understood why non-expert-in-anythi ng-politicians are considered the best people to decide on what our tax rates should be and who pays or benefits. ('Rule Britannia' fades up) I am lucky enough to pay the top rate tax and am more than happy to do so as our NHS, education system and public services are what makes me proud of this country and what makes this country, mainly Cornwall, a great place to live. (There's more to life than money, golf and sunny weather). And yes, I have known what it is to be poor and eligible to claim benefits, it's not desirable even if you're a shirker, so I would never blame someone for doing so if they really needed to. (Fade out 'Rule Britannia') Don't let politicians near our money! molesworth
  • Score: 0

10:30pm Tue 18 Dec 12

ronedgcumbe says...

Is It not expertly independent politically economists that are to blame for all the current problems.
As usual with a Tory lead council it is the poor who foot the bill.
At least we now know where the increased allowances is coming from
Is It not expertly independent politically economists that are to blame for all the current problems. As usual with a Tory lead council it is the poor who foot the bill. At least we now know where the increased allowances is coming from ronedgcumbe
  • Score: 0

6:38am Wed 19 Dec 12

Gill Zella Martin 09 says...

Maybe we would be better represented by a more varied cross section of council leaders, some of whom have a vastly different financial status.
The only time in my life I have claimed benefits is since my husband died and even then only council tax benefit, which I now am no longer entitled to and quite frankly that brings the benefit in itself of no longer being made to feel by some that I am a second rate citizen.
Maybe we would be better represented by a more varied cross section of council leaders, some of whom have a vastly different financial status. The only time in my life I have claimed benefits is since my husband died and even then only council tax benefit, which I now am no longer entitled to and quite frankly that brings the benefit in itself of no longer being made to feel by some that I am a second rate citizen. Gill Zella Martin 09
  • Score: 0

7:32am Wed 19 Dec 12

Gill Zella Martin 09 says...

ronedgcumbe wrote:
Is It not expertly independent politically economists that are to blame for all the current problems.
As usual with a Tory lead council it is the poor who foot the bill.
At least we now know where the increased allowances is coming from
Before I came back with my husband(when he was alive obviously) to live in our home county, I lived in a county run by a Tory led council, but they did not penalise the poor with the council tax, they also got on and built an incinerator when they needed it, they had a fifty percent recycling rate, and did not mess about with various ridiculous multi coloured recycling bags that made the county look a mess, and incidentally most of my neighbours don't bother with them and I don't blame them, as there is nowhere to keep them, and I did not have to pay the highest water rates in the country. They did not have a vote of no confidence in their council leader and they did not try to privatise all the services. So I don't think it is so much about the political party but more so about the people that are in it. I know Cornwall gets a raw deal from the government financially but it may help if some of our council leaders were from vastly different financial backgrounds as they would maybe then have a greater understanding of how this council tax change will really impact on the poorest people. We have an ever increasing need for food banks in the county which in the 21st century in Britain I think is appalling.
[quote][p][bold]ronedgcumbe[/bold] wrote: Is It not expertly independent politically economists that are to blame for all the current problems. As usual with a Tory lead council it is the poor who foot the bill. At least we now know where the increased allowances is coming from[/p][/quote]Before I came back with my husband(when he was alive obviously) to live in our home county, I lived in a county run by a Tory led council, but they did not penalise the poor with the council tax, they also got on and built an incinerator when they needed it, they had a fifty percent recycling rate, and did not mess about with various ridiculous multi coloured recycling bags that made the county look a mess, and incidentally most of my neighbours don't bother with them and I don't blame them, as there is nowhere to keep them, and I did not have to pay the highest water rates in the country. They did not have a vote of no confidence in their council leader and they did not try to privatise all the services. So I don't think it is so much about the political party but more so about the people that are in it. I know Cornwall gets a raw deal from the government financially but it may help if some of our council leaders were from vastly different financial backgrounds as they would maybe then have a greater understanding of how this council tax change will really impact on the poorest people. We have an ever increasing need for food banks in the county which in the 21st century in Britain I think is appalling. Gill Zella Martin 09
  • Score: 0

12:23pm Wed 19 Dec 12

Poldark says...

Charging Council tax on students lets would be a start!
Charging Council tax on students lets would be a start! Poldark
  • Score: 0

2:02pm Wed 19 Dec 12

molesworth says...

Poldark and your continuous and mostly unreasonable distaste for students - just get over it!
Gill, you are the voice of reason yet again. Multi coloured recycling bins are a source of great irritation to me and I am incredulous we need food banks in Cornwall. Like you I judge a person by their deeds not their party or their rhetoric. You'll have my vote if you stand good lady, by God you will.
Poldark and your continuous and mostly unreasonable distaste for students - just get over it! Gill, you are the voice of reason yet again. Multi coloured recycling bins are a source of great irritation to me and I am incredulous we need food banks in Cornwall. Like you I judge a person by their deeds not their party or their rhetoric. You'll have my vote if you stand good lady, by God you will. molesworth
  • Score: 0

5:47pm Wed 19 Dec 12

Gill Zella Martin 09 says...

molesworth wrote:
Poldark and your continuous and mostly unreasonable distaste for students - just get over it!
Gill, you are the voice of reason yet again. Multi coloured recycling bins are a source of great irritation to me and I am incredulous we need food banks in Cornwall. Like you I judge a person by their deeds not their party or their rhetoric. You'll have my vote if you stand good lady, by God you will.
Lol, thank you molesworth but judging by all the insults I have sustained in the past on this website and another, I would imagine the only place many people would like me to stand would be in front of a moving bus.
[quote][p][bold]molesworth[/bold] wrote: Poldark and your continuous and mostly unreasonable distaste for students - just get over it! Gill, you are the voice of reason yet again. Multi coloured recycling bins are a source of great irritation to me and I am incredulous we need food banks in Cornwall. Like you I judge a person by their deeds not their party or their rhetoric. You'll have my vote if you stand good lady, by God you will.[/p][/quote]Lol, thank you molesworth but judging by all the insults I have sustained in the past on this website and another, I would imagine the only place many people would like me to stand would be in front of a moving bus. Gill Zella Martin 09
  • Score: 0

11:01am Thu 20 Dec 12

meerkats says...

Gill ,i for one enjoy reading all your comments and as molesworth says you are the voice of reason. People can be very insulting on these pages, i have had a few insulting comments myself, but its best to ignore them. Bit drastic to stand in front of a moving bus ,probably wouldnt turn up anyway. !!
Gill ,i for one enjoy reading all your comments and as molesworth says you are the voice of reason. People can be very insulting on these pages, i have had a few insulting comments myself, but its best to ignore them. Bit drastic to stand in front of a moving bus ,probably wouldnt turn up anyway. !! meerkats
  • Score: 0

3:42pm Thu 20 Dec 12

Gill Zella Martin 09 says...

meerkats wrote:
Gill ,i for one enjoy reading all your comments and as molesworth says you are the voice of reason. People can be very insulting on these pages, i have had a few insulting comments myself, but its best to ignore them. Bit drastic to stand in front of a moving bus ,probably wouldnt turn up anyway. !!
Lol, yes, probably by the time it turned up I would have died of hypothermia anyway.

What I believe is wrong with this council tax benefit idea is that you cannot categorise everyone of working age that is not in work, in the same way. For example, I am an unpaid carer for my elderly mother who lives with me and therefore I am not in a position to work full time even if there were any full time jobs available. I am on a low income as are many others.
I additionally think that Mr Pickles should come to Cornwall, start from somewhere like St Keverne or the Lizard village and attempt to use public transport to get himself to a job in Falmouth first thing in the morning. He would find that probably the time he got there he would not have time to do much work before it was time to go home. If his bright idea is for Cornwall Council to get people on council tax benefit back into work then I suggest the government address the rural public transport issues. Has it occurred to him also, that many people on council tax benefit are in work but on low Cornish wages.
[quote][p][bold]meerkats[/bold] wrote: Gill ,i for one enjoy reading all your comments and as molesworth says you are the voice of reason. People can be very insulting on these pages, i have had a few insulting comments myself, but its best to ignore them. Bit drastic to stand in front of a moving bus ,probably wouldnt turn up anyway. !![/p][/quote]Lol, yes, probably by the time it turned up I would have died of hypothermia anyway. What I believe is wrong with this council tax benefit idea is that you cannot categorise everyone of working age that is not in work, in the same way. For example, I am an unpaid carer for my elderly mother who lives with me and therefore I am not in a position to work full time even if there were any full time jobs available. I am on a low income as are many others. I additionally think that Mr Pickles should come to Cornwall, start from somewhere like St Keverne or the Lizard village and attempt to use public transport to get himself to a job in Falmouth first thing in the morning. He would find that probably the time he got there he would not have time to do much work before it was time to go home. If his bright idea is for Cornwall Council to get people on council tax benefit back into work then I suggest the government address the rural public transport issues. Has it occurred to him also, that many people on council tax benefit are in work but on low Cornish wages. Gill Zella Martin 09
  • Score: 0

4:46pm Thu 20 Dec 12

meerkats says...

Iexpect that what Mr Pickles knows about the difficulties in Cornwall ,ie public transport, low incomes and no jobs could be written on the back of a postage stamp. He should come down and see the hardships people face daily.
Iexpect that what Mr Pickles knows about the difficulties in Cornwall ,ie public transport, low incomes and no jobs could be written on the back of a postage stamp. He should come down and see the hardships people face daily. meerkats
  • Score: 0

8:31pm Thu 20 Dec 12

ronedgcumbe says...

People in reciept of council tax benefit have to be on very low incomes so why does the council believe they have the ability to pay this.
The only way to collect this would be to deduct the money at source or to take the poorist to the court system.
There is no point sending bills to people who cannot possibly pay anymore. The money will have to be found elleswhere.
There are clearly some hard decisions ahead but cuts to non essential services would be preferable to the option of sending children to school hungry or forcing hard working families to seek help from food banks.
This is the first time I have ever agreed with Mr Pickles maybe the council should set an example and call of there rise in allowances which clearly should not be funded.
People in reciept of council tax benefit have to be on very low incomes so why does the council believe they have the ability to pay this. The only way to collect this would be to deduct the money at source or to take the poorist to the court system. There is no point sending bills to people who cannot possibly pay anymore. The money will have to be found elleswhere. There are clearly some hard decisions ahead but cuts to non essential services would be preferable to the option of sending children to school hungry or forcing hard working families to seek help from food banks. This is the first time I have ever agreed with Mr Pickles maybe the council should set an example and call of there rise in allowances which clearly should not be funded. ronedgcumbe
  • Score: 0

8:31pm Thu 20 Dec 12

ronedgcumbe says...

People in reciept of council tax benefit have to be on very low incomes so why does the council believe they have the ability to pay this.
The only way to collect this would be to deduct the money at source or to take the poorist to the court system.
There is no point sending bills to people who cannot possibly pay anymore. The money will have to be found elleswhere.
There are clearly some hard decisions ahead but cuts to non essential services would be preferable to the option of sending children to school hungry or forcing hard working families to seek help from food banks.
This is the first time I have ever agreed with Mr Pickles maybe the council should set an example and call of there rise in allowances which clearly should not be funded.
People in reciept of council tax benefit have to be on very low incomes so why does the council believe they have the ability to pay this. The only way to collect this would be to deduct the money at source or to take the poorist to the court system. There is no point sending bills to people who cannot possibly pay anymore. The money will have to be found elleswhere. There are clearly some hard decisions ahead but cuts to non essential services would be preferable to the option of sending children to school hungry or forcing hard working families to seek help from food banks. This is the first time I have ever agreed with Mr Pickles maybe the council should set an example and call of there rise in allowances which clearly should not be funded. ronedgcumbe
  • Score: 0

5:44pm Fri 21 Dec 12

Lanty Slee says...

In Pickles' perfect world all the poor people would die.

And then he would eat them.
In Pickles' perfect world all the poor people would die. And then he would eat them. Lanty Slee
  • Score: 0

6:31pm Fri 21 Dec 12

meerkats says...

With a name like that he would relish the thought!! lol
With a name like that he would relish the thought!! lol meerkats
  • Score: 0

6:33pm Fri 21 Dec 12

Gill Zella Martin 09 says...

Lol.
Lol. Gill Zella Martin 09
  • Score: 0

9:09pm Fri 21 Dec 12

meerkats says...

Gill Zella Martin 09 wrote:
Lol.
just to wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year(not at all relevant to the subject ,before anyone says anything)
[quote][p][bold]Gill Zella Martin 09[/bold] wrote: Lol.[/p][/quote]just to wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year(not at all relevant to the subject ,before anyone says anything) meerkats
  • Score: 0

9:25pm Fri 21 Dec 12

Gill Zella Martin 09 says...

meerkats wrote:
Gill Zella Martin 09 wrote:
Lol.
just to wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year(not at all relevant to the subject ,before anyone says anything)
Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you to. ( there is no law that says it has to be relevant :)

Here's an irrelevant comment though, seeing as Lanty Slee mentioned about Pickles eating people, it reminded me about what ever happened to the drive through pasty place that was supposed to be happening in Helston on the old Vauxhall garage site ? I didn't think Cornwall Council were that slow at planning permission applications.
[quote][p][bold]meerkats[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gill Zella Martin 09[/bold] wrote: Lol.[/p][/quote]just to wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year(not at all relevant to the subject ,before anyone says anything)[/p][/quote]Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you to. ( there is no law that says it has to be relevant :) Here's an irrelevant comment though, seeing as Lanty Slee mentioned about Pickles eating people, it reminded me about what ever happened to the drive through pasty place that was supposed to be happening in Helston on the old Vauxhall garage site ? I didn't think Cornwall Council were that slow at planning permission applications. Gill Zella Martin 09
  • Score: 0

9:32pm Fri 21 Dec 12

Gill Zella Martin 09 says...

Incidentally I rang the council tax department at Cornwall Council yesterday and the gentlemen I spoke to was really very helpful, gold star for him. His help was really appreciated.
Incidentally I rang the council tax department at Cornwall Council yesterday and the gentlemen I spoke to was really very helpful, gold star for him. His help was really appreciated. Gill Zella Martin 09
  • Score: 0

10:28pm Fri 21 Dec 12

Grocer says...

Is this the council whose members recently awarded themselves a 20% increase in their allowance?

And a one-fifth increase in their mileage allowance?
Is this the council whose members recently awarded themselves a 20% increase in their allowance? And a one-fifth increase in their mileage allowance? Grocer
  • Score: 0

12:40am Sat 22 Dec 12

ronedgcumbe says...

Yes it is. It also the council that governs the third poorest region in the UK and has today seen there chief probably resign. Even Eric Pickles has problems with our councils treatment of our poorest.
Yes it is. It also the council that governs the third poorest region in the UK and has today seen there chief probably resign. Even Eric Pickles has problems with our councils treatment of our poorest. ronedgcumbe
  • Score: 0

5:05am Sat 22 Dec 12

Gill Zella Martin 09 says...

In Cornwall Councils defence, it is Eric Pickles/government that are starving Cornwall of the funding it needs and then acting surprised at the cut backs. Cornwall Council did hold a public survey on their views as to how the council tax changes/options should be implemented, to which I responded, I would be interested to know how many others responded. However, having said that, I would also be interested to know how much notice if any did Cornwall Council take of the public views. With forthcoming elections I would suggest Cornwall Councillors are very careful as to which way they vote on the council tax options.
In Cornwall Councils defence, it is Eric Pickles/government that are starving Cornwall of the funding it needs and then acting surprised at the cut backs. Cornwall Council did hold a public survey on their views as to how the council tax changes/options should be implemented, to which I responded, I would be interested to know how many others responded. However, having said that, I would also be interested to know how much notice if any did Cornwall Council take of the public views. With forthcoming elections I would suggest Cornwall Councillors are very careful as to which way they vote on the council tax options. Gill Zella Martin 09
  • Score: 0

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