Helston fingerpost signs to be repainted

Falmouth Packet: Helston fingerpost signs to be repainted Helston fingerpost signs to be repainted

Fingerpost signs in Helston are to be refurbished by the town council - despite officially being the responsibility of the county.

Members agreed to cover the cost of the refurbishments, after hearing from regeneration officer Martin Searle that the three signs - outside the Guildhall, at the bottom of Coinagehall Street and in Meneage Street at the bottom of Horse and Jockey Lane - were in need of repainting.

Mr Searle said that although they were the responsibility of Cornwall Council, he understood the necessary work would “not be a priority” in the budgets allocated to Cormac, as they did not relate to the safety of road users or pedestrians.

Mr Searle said: “It's clear from the conversations I've had they're not a priority for maintenance. It's a little project that could help the town centre look a little bit more attractive.”

He believed painting the posts in-situ would be the cheapest way of carrying out the work and he was in the process of obtaining estimates for Cormac and other contractors.

“Subject to a satisfactory quotation the work could be carried out within a short period of time, thereby contributing to the attractiveness of the town centre in time for the main visitor season,” he said.

Councillor Martine Knight, who has experience of such painting through her work maintaining gravestones, questioned whether volunteers could carry out the work.

Mr Searle said he would look into whether special accreditation was needed to be able to work on the highway, or whether members with existing accreditation could act as health and safety support to others carrying out the work.

Comments (57)

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1:01pm Thu 29 May 14

ronedgcumbe says...

With the council tax increase for the town council seemingly out of control this is not the time to fund county expenses.
An inflation only increase should be the aim for 2015.
Time for a cap I think.
With the council tax increase for the town council seemingly out of control this is not the time to fund county expenses. An inflation only increase should be the aim for 2015. Time for a cap I think. ronedgcumbe
  • Score: -7

1:15pm Thu 29 May 14

Gill Z Martin says...

It does not actually say from which source of money this is to come?

The normal town council budget? or the proportion of section 106 money, that Mr Martin Searle is using, as regeneration officer for the public realm work?

I think it is a good idea to repaint the signs, however, I think the money should come from the section 106 money.
It does not actually say from which source of money this is to come? The normal town council budget? or the proportion of section 106 money, that Mr Martin Searle is using, as regeneration officer for the public realm work? I think it is a good idea to repaint the signs, however, I think the money should come from the section 106 money. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 8

1:48pm Thu 29 May 14

telstar1962 says...

It's just 3 small finger-post signs which need proper maintenance.

Why such a big fuss, with all the usual parlance of local government.

Get on with the job and send the bill to Cornwall Council !
It's just 3 small finger-post signs which need proper maintenance. Why such a big fuss, with all the usual parlance of local government. Get on with the job and send the bill to Cornwall Council ! telstar1962
  • Score: -9

1:58pm Thu 29 May 14

Gill Z Martin says...

telstar1962 wrote:
It's just 3 small finger-post signs which need proper maintenance.

Why such a big fuss, with all the usual parlance of local government.

Get on with the job and send the bill to Cornwall Council !
I believe to exercise the right to repair, one has to notify and give the owner the opportunity to do the work themselves, if you want to bill them for it when doing it yourself I mean.
[quote][p][bold]telstar1962[/bold] wrote: It's just 3 small finger-post signs which need proper maintenance. Why such a big fuss, with all the usual parlance of local government. Get on with the job and send the bill to Cornwall Council ![/p][/quote]I believe to exercise the right to repair, one has to notify and give the owner the opportunity to do the work themselves, if you want to bill them for it when doing it yourself I mean. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 14

2:55pm Thu 29 May 14

telstar1962 says...

Of course Gillian, the necessary rules amd regulations need to be strictly observed
Of course Gillian, the necessary rules amd regulations need to be strictly observed telstar1962
  • Score: -10

3:00pm Thu 29 May 14

Gill Z Martin says...

telstar1962 wrote:
Of course Gillian, the necessary rules amd regulations need to be strictly observed
Well they do not have no, but I doubt they would be refunded the money from Cornwall Council if they just did the work and tried to bill Cornwall Council for it.
[quote][p][bold]telstar1962[/bold] wrote: Of course Gillian, the necessary rules amd regulations need to be strictly observed[/p][/quote]Well they do not have no, but I doubt they would be refunded the money from Cornwall Council if they just did the work and tried to bill Cornwall Council for it. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 12

4:07pm Thu 29 May 14

Gill Z Martin says...

I would be interested to know why the regeneration officer did not identify this need when he was first employed, one post is right outside the Guildhall, so he could hardly have missed it.

While Mr Searle is busy talking about it, Mullion have just got on and painted their lamp posts, one man up ladder painting, one man at bottom of ladder, job done.
I would be interested to know why the regeneration officer did not identify this need when he was first employed, one post is right outside the Guildhall, so he could hardly have missed it. While Mr Searle is busy talking about it, Mullion have just got on and painted their lamp posts, one man up ladder painting, one man at bottom of ladder, job done. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 20

4:45pm Thu 29 May 14

telstar1962 says...

and if the white walls can be painted in time for Furry Day, then so could the fingerposts ?
and if the white walls can be painted in time for Furry Day, then so could the fingerposts ? telstar1962
  • Score: 18

5:04pm Thu 29 May 14

Gill Z Martin says...

telstar1962 wrote:
and if the white walls can be painted in time for Furry Day, then so could the fingerposts ?
The Helston and Lizard Rotary Club painted the white washed walls, perhaps they have Duracell batteries and Mr Searle ordinary ones.
[quote][p][bold]telstar1962[/bold] wrote: and if the white walls can be painted in time for Furry Day, then so could the fingerposts ?[/p][/quote]The Helston and Lizard Rotary Club painted the white washed walls, perhaps they have Duracell batteries and Mr Searle ordinary ones. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 23

6:01pm Thu 29 May 14

Helston fly on the wall says...

ronedgcumbe wrote:
With the council tax increase for the town council seemingly out of control this is not the time to fund county expenses.
An inflation only increase should be the aim for 2015.
Time for a cap I think.
We're not paying for this out of our council tax, that figure has already been set, and some of us are already paying it.
With 800 thousand approx from Tescos and Saibsburys I'm sure the town council can pay for a few signs to be painted. The BIP have spent enough, what's wrong with using some of the BIP money they didn't spend after all on an office in the town.
[quote][p][bold]ronedgcumbe[/bold] wrote: With the council tax increase for the town council seemingly out of control this is not the time to fund county expenses. An inflation only increase should be the aim for 2015. Time for a cap I think.[/p][/quote]We're not paying for this out of our council tax, that figure has already been set, and some of us are already paying it. With 800 thousand approx from Tescos and Saibsburys I'm sure the town council can pay for a few signs to be painted. The BIP have spent enough, what's wrong with using some of the BIP money they didn't spend after all on an office in the town. Helston fly on the wall
  • Score: 9

10:13pm Thu 29 May 14

ronedgcumbe says...

Somthing very wrong here.
Somthing very wrong here. ronedgcumbe
  • Score: 1

10:16pm Thu 29 May 14

ronedgcumbe says...

Can someone remind me how much we are paying this fellow.
Can someone remind me how much we are paying this fellow. ronedgcumbe
  • Score: 18

8:42am Sat 31 May 14

krazyitchkatie says...

The bip volunteers have already painted lots of railings, posts, electric boxes and other shabby street furniture, but we have been accused of criminal damage for some of the maintenance works we have done as a thanks for our free labour so it is not always best to 'just get on with it' blindly unfortunately.
The bip volunteers have already painted lots of railings, posts, electric boxes and other shabby street furniture, but we have been accused of criminal damage for some of the maintenance works we have done as a thanks for our free labour so it is not always best to 'just get on with it' blindly unfortunately. krazyitchkatie
  • Score: -15

9:51am Sat 31 May 14

Gill Z Martin says...

krazyitchkatie wrote:
The bip volunteers have already painted lots of railings, posts, electric boxes and other shabby street furniture, but we have been accused of criminal damage for some of the maintenance works we have done as a thanks for our free labour so it is not always best to 'just get on with it' blindly unfortunately.
If the property belongs to an identifiable person/company, permission should be sought. However, as these finger posts belong to Cornwall Council it would be easy to ascertain if they intend to paint them, and if not obtain permission for the town council to do so.
[quote][p][bold]krazyitchkatie[/bold] wrote: The bip volunteers have already painted lots of railings, posts, electric boxes and other shabby street furniture, but we have been accused of criminal damage for some of the maintenance works we have done as a thanks for our free labour so it is not always best to 'just get on with it' blindly unfortunately.[/p][/quote]If the property belongs to an identifiable person/company, permission should be sought. However, as these finger posts belong to Cornwall Council it would be easy to ascertain if they intend to paint them, and if not obtain permission for the town council to do so. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 14

10:09am Sat 31 May 14

krazyitchkatie says...

Yes but there's lots of red tape and plenty of jobsworths to make a simple task complicated though!
Yes but there's lots of red tape and plenty of jobsworths to make a simple task complicated though! krazyitchkatie
  • Score: -13

2:54pm Sat 31 May 14

Gill Z Martin says...

krazyitchkatie wrote:
Yes but there's lots of red tape and plenty of jobsworths to make a simple task complicated though!
Do you mean to say the Cornwall Councillors would object to the town council painting their posts for them? I would be surprised if they even had time to notice. In the article Mr Searle says from the conversations he has had, it is clear they (the finger posts) are not a priority for maintenance. Why did he not then gain permission at time of conversation for the town council to paint them?
The whole situation seems disjointed to me. Without meaning to be disrespectful to him, Mr Searle appears to do a lot of talking and not much action.
It is the town council amenities committee that have organised the new signage boards for the town for example, so what exactly is Mr Searle doing?
[quote][p][bold]krazyitchkatie[/bold] wrote: Yes but there's lots of red tape and plenty of jobsworths to make a simple task complicated though![/p][/quote]Do you mean to say the Cornwall Councillors would object to the town council painting their posts for them? I would be surprised if they even had time to notice. In the article Mr Searle says from the conversations he has had, it is clear they (the finger posts) are not a priority for maintenance. Why did he not then gain permission at time of conversation for the town council to paint them? The whole situation seems disjointed to me. Without meaning to be disrespectful to him, Mr Searle appears to do a lot of talking and not much action. It is the town council amenities committee that have organised the new signage boards for the town for example, so what exactly is Mr Searle doing? Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 16

3:37pm Sat 31 May 14

ronedgcumbe says...

So please we agree Gill. Just inventing red tape for the sake of it. No one seems capable of making a decision.
Would love to see a job description for a rejuvenating officer.
So please we agree Gill. Just inventing red tape for the sake of it. No one seems capable of making a decision. Would love to see a job description for a rejuvenating officer. ronedgcumbe
  • Score: 13

9:11pm Sat 31 May 14

krazyitchkatie says...

My vote is for guerrilla tactics then no one is to blame and something would actually get done.
My vote is for guerrilla tactics then no one is to blame and something would actually get done. krazyitchkatie
  • Score: -11

9:53pm Sat 31 May 14

Gill Z Martin says...

I just cannot see what the problem is, how difficult can it be to liaise with Cornwall Council, Helston has three Cornwall Councillors, surely one of them could carry the question forward to Cornwall Council. Either Cornwall Council want to paint the posts or they don't, and if they don't, the town council should seek permission to do so. If permission declined, try to negotiate transferal of ownership of posts. Cornwall Council seemed quite happy to transfer ownership of toilets etc.
I just cannot see what the problem is, how difficult can it be to liaise with Cornwall Council, Helston has three Cornwall Councillors, surely one of them could carry the question forward to Cornwall Council. Either Cornwall Council want to paint the posts or they don't, and if they don't, the town council should seek permission to do so. If permission declined, try to negotiate transferal of ownership of posts. Cornwall Council seemed quite happy to transfer ownership of toilets etc. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 14

10:28pm Sat 31 May 14

krazyitchkatie says...

I have no idea on this particular situation is, and Personally i haven't had any recent dealings with martin Searle, I'm just saying I'm not surprised something as simple as painting some posts can't be done quickly and easily.
I have no idea on this particular situation is, and Personally i haven't had any recent dealings with martin Searle, I'm just saying I'm not surprised something as simple as painting some posts can't be done quickly and easily. krazyitchkatie
  • Score: 3

5:35am Sun 1 Jun 14

Gill Z Martin says...

krazyitchkatie wrote:
I have no idea on this particular situation is, and Personally i haven't had any recent dealings with martin Searle, I'm just saying I'm not surprised something as simple as painting some posts can't be done quickly and easily.
I suppose then, one has to ask what the difference is between Helston and other local towns/villages when getting things done, particularly when money should not be the problem! Porthleven does not appear to generate the same publicity about things that it cannot do, or takes years to achieve?
[quote][p][bold]krazyitchkatie[/bold] wrote: I have no idea on this particular situation is, and Personally i haven't had any recent dealings with martin Searle, I'm just saying I'm not surprised something as simple as painting some posts can't be done quickly and easily.[/p][/quote]I suppose then, one has to ask what the difference is between Helston and other local towns/villages when getting things done, particularly when money should not be the problem! Porthleven does not appear to generate the same publicity about things that it cannot do, or takes years to achieve? Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 15

9:24am Sun 1 Jun 14

krazyitchkatie says...

I'd say it all boils down to attitudes.
I'd say it all boils down to attitudes. krazyitchkatie
  • Score: 11

1:42pm Sun 1 Jun 14

Helston fly on the wall says...

I think it is because other towns and villages Cllrs sort things out themselves and don't keep employing different people to spend their money for them. It's not just down to the town council either, the finger posts belong to Cornwall Council, where's our Cornwall Cllrs in all this? Cllr Haycock is supposed to cover the town isnt she?
I think it is because other towns and villages Cllrs sort things out themselves and don't keep employing different people to spend their money for them. It's not just down to the town council either, the finger posts belong to Cornwall Council, where's our Cornwall Cllrs in all this? Cllr Haycock is supposed to cover the town isnt she? Helston fly on the wall
  • Score: 12

8:56pm Sun 1 Jun 14

telstar1962 says...

To be honest, if a trivial matter cannot be easily done without all this fuss and bother,and discussions on which newly formed group may or may not do this or that, how on earth do you think anything of a major project can be done in Helston, with the personnel available.

Seems to me that the Old Cattle Market, the Penrose Road Building and other big projects have needed the necessary skills and expertise from people who have a proven track record of success
To be honest, if a trivial matter cannot be easily done without all this fuss and bother,and discussions on which newly formed group may or may not do this or that, how on earth do you think anything of a major project can be done in Helston, with the personnel available. Seems to me that the Old Cattle Market, the Penrose Road Building and other big projects have needed the necessary skills and expertise from people who have a proven track record of success telstar1962
  • Score: 12

6:04am Mon 2 Jun 14

Gill Z Martin says...

telstar1962 wrote:
To be honest, if a trivial matter cannot be easily done without all this fuss and bother,and discussions on which newly formed group may or may not do this or that, how on earth do you think anything of a major project can be done in Helston, with the personnel available.

Seems to me that the Old Cattle Market, the Penrose Road Building and other big projects have needed the necessary skills and expertise from people who have a proven track record of success
What major projects? I do not think there will be any money left for anything major. Benches, signage and bus stops so far. The amenities committee seem to be sorting out the signage and they did the benches, ok there were teething problems, but they got them sorted. Mullion installed a bus stop without the need of a regeneration officer. I therefore now rightly or wrongly question the position of Mr Searle? What is he doing that could not have been done by the town council themselves?
Additionally, what is happening about gaining BID status? This was supposed to be the idea of employing the other person, they were supposed to have expertise in that field!
[quote][p][bold]telstar1962[/bold] wrote: To be honest, if a trivial matter cannot be easily done without all this fuss and bother,and discussions on which newly formed group may or may not do this or that, how on earth do you think anything of a major project can be done in Helston, with the personnel available. Seems to me that the Old Cattle Market, the Penrose Road Building and other big projects have needed the necessary skills and expertise from people who have a proven track record of success[/p][/quote]What major projects? I do not think there will be any money left for anything major. Benches, signage and bus stops so far. The amenities committee seem to be sorting out the signage and they did the benches, ok there were teething problems, but they got them sorted. Mullion installed a bus stop without the need of a regeneration officer. I therefore now rightly or wrongly question the position of Mr Searle? What is he doing that could not have been done by the town council themselves? Additionally, what is happening about gaining BID status? This was supposed to be the idea of employing the other person, they were supposed to have expertise in that field! Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 12

7:09am Mon 2 Jun 14

Gill Z Martin says...

Does anyone have an update on the extra funding that the town council asked Mr Searle to try to attract with some of the public realm money?

I remember reading that some of the public realm money was supposed to be used to attract additional funding. Not quite sure how this works if the money has been spent, and if it is not spent, then I am not sure how Mr Seale can deliver a major project, bearing in mind the timescale in which the money has to be used.
Does anyone have an update on the extra funding that the town council asked Mr Searle to try to attract with some of the public realm money? I remember reading that some of the public realm money was supposed to be used to attract additional funding. Not quite sure how this works if the money has been spent, and if it is not spent, then I am not sure how Mr Seale can deliver a major project, bearing in mind the timescale in which the money has to be used. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 13

7:21am Mon 2 Jun 14

Helston fly on the wall says...

Ooooh touchy, someone out there doesn't like telstar1962 or Gills last comments, they voted them down when they were voted up, I've just voted them up again.

I think the simple answer is, there will be no major project. There is not enough skill or money to use for a major project. 800,000 originally, down to 250, 000 for real projects in the town, and what are we getting, a bus stop that the council should have paid for anyway years ago, some benches and signs.
I thought we were supposed to be getting things to offset the negative affect of the out of town supermarkets and attract people into the town. This has to be the biggest squandering of a good sum of money I think.
Ooooh touchy, someone out there doesn't like telstar1962 or Gills last comments, they voted them down when they were voted up, I've just voted them up again. I think the simple answer is, there will be no major project. There is not enough skill or money to use for a major project. 800,000 originally, down to 250, 000 for real projects in the town, and what are we getting, a bus stop that the council should have paid for anyway years ago, some benches and signs. I thought we were supposed to be getting things to offset the negative affect of the out of town supermarkets and attract people into the town. This has to be the biggest squandering of a good sum of money I think. Helston fly on the wall
  • Score: 12

8:18am Mon 2 Jun 14

telstar1962 says...

Mr Searle is reported as saying that the painting of 3 signposts is 'a little project'

Logically it must follow that nearly everything else that needs doing in the Town is ' a Big Project'.

There are so many different groups and individuals all with Helston Town at heart, that it's about time they all merged under one Group. All voted in, (none co-opted), one leader etc etc

Oh,yes. You've already got that. It's called the Town Council lol
Mr Searle is reported as saying that the painting of 3 signposts is 'a little project' Logically it must follow that nearly everything else that needs doing in the Town is ' a Big Project'. There are so many different groups and individuals all with Helston Town at heart, that it's about time they all merged under one Group. All voted in, (none co-opted), one leader etc etc Oh,yes. You've already got that. It's called the Town Council lol telstar1962
  • Score: 11

8:41am Mon 2 Jun 14

krazyitchkatie says...

There was never enough money in the first place to offset any damage. I think that was farcical. It would be good for Mr Searle to give a public update to answer these questions, although I'd like to think he is doing lots of groundwork to make sure what little money is available, is spent correctly.
There was never enough money in the first place to offset any damage. I think that was farcical. It would be good for Mr Searle to give a public update to answer these questions, although I'd like to think he is doing lots of groundwork to make sure what little money is available, is spent correctly. krazyitchkatie
  • Score: -12

8:43am Mon 2 Jun 14

Gill Z Martin says...

telstar1962 wrote:
Mr Searle is reported as saying that the painting of 3 signposts is 'a little project'

Logically it must follow that nearly everything else that needs doing in the Town is ' a Big Project'.

There are so many different groups and individuals all with Helston Town at heart, that it's about time they all merged under one Group. All voted in, (none co-opted), one leader etc etc

Oh,yes. You've already got that. It's called the Town Council lol
I agree with you basically, except the co-opting. If a vacancy is there and only one person stands, as happened last time, then there is no option but to co-opt. I think co-opted councillors can be just as good and committed as elected ones, after all, the councillors are all voluntary workers.

I was of the understanding that a big project constituted something like making extra parking bays etc. I just would have assumed with the amount of available money originally, that there would be a little more on offer than bus shelters, benches and signage, which most local towns and villages have managed to achieve anyway.

There are many people all committed to Helston and working hard for the town, I suppose only time will tell what has been achieved with the windfall money. I must learn to do patience!
[quote][p][bold]telstar1962[/bold] wrote: Mr Searle is reported as saying that the painting of 3 signposts is 'a little project' Logically it must follow that nearly everything else that needs doing in the Town is ' a Big Project'. There are so many different groups and individuals all with Helston Town at heart, that it's about time they all merged under one Group. All voted in, (none co-opted), one leader etc etc Oh,yes. You've already got that. It's called the Town Council lol[/p][/quote]I agree with you basically, except the co-opting. If a vacancy is there and only one person stands, as happened last time, then there is no option but to co-opt. I think co-opted councillors can be just as good and committed as elected ones, after all, the councillors are all voluntary workers. I was of the understanding that a big project constituted something like making extra parking bays etc. I just would have assumed with the amount of available money originally, that there would be a little more on offer than bus shelters, benches and signage, which most local towns and villages have managed to achieve anyway. There are many people all committed to Helston and working hard for the town, I suppose only time will tell what has been achieved with the windfall money. I must learn to do patience! Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 16

8:54am Mon 2 Jun 14

Helston fly on the wall says...

krazyitchkatie wrote:
There was never enough money in the first place to offset any damage. I think that was farcical. It would be good for Mr Searle to give a public update to answer these questions, although I'd like to think he is doing lots of groundwork to make sure what little money is available, is spent correctly.
There was about 800,000 originally, too much of this has gone on wages for invented job positions. Plus money given in grants by the BIP to landlords just to paint up their properties.
[quote][p][bold]krazyitchkatie[/bold] wrote: There was never enough money in the first place to offset any damage. I think that was farcical. It would be good for Mr Searle to give a public update to answer these questions, although I'd like to think he is doing lots of groundwork to make sure what little money is available, is spent correctly.[/p][/quote]There was about 800,000 originally, too much of this has gone on wages for invented job positions. Plus money given in grants by the BIP to landlords just to paint up their properties. Helston fly on the wall
  • Score: 13

9:12am Mon 2 Jun 14

Helston fly on the wall says...

Katie says in a previous post that the BIP have been accused of criminal damage for some of the work they have done around the town, so what with that and the logo the council doesn't seem to want to use and the out of date town guide, the money on grants etc, was it worth having the BIP and all the money they spent? and if the town council had employed a local town manager originally, he might have stuck around long enough to see how the market stalls are doing. Remind me, how much did the stalls cost? Ms Hornsby said you have to speculate to accumulate when she was in favour of buying them Ermm, shouldn't they have rented some to see how well it worked first?
Katie says in a previous post that the BIP have been accused of criminal damage for some of the work they have done around the town, so what with that and the logo the council doesn't seem to want to use and the out of date town guide, the money on grants etc, was it worth having the BIP and all the money they spent? and if the town council had employed a local town manager originally, he might have stuck around long enough to see how the market stalls are doing. Remind me, how much did the stalls cost? Ms Hornsby said you have to speculate to accumulate when she was in favour of buying them Ermm, shouldn't they have rented some to see how well it worked first? Helston fly on the wall
  • Score: 14

9:24am Mon 2 Jun 14

krazyitchkatie says...

I think it's unfair to criticise volunteers who have done their best with what resources they had available, without also reflecting on the good they've achieved.

But yes, I am very much in support of the council making public where and how they've spent our money. I believe it would be very interesting.
I think it's unfair to criticise volunteers who have done their best with what resources they had available, without also reflecting on the good they've achieved. But yes, I am very much in support of the council making public where and how they've spent our money. I believe it would be very interesting. krazyitchkatie
  • Score: 6

9:54am Mon 2 Jun 14

Gill Z Martin says...

The HBIP have done some very good work within the town, if nobody ever tried anything, nothing would be achieved. Anyone that works voluntarily deserves credit.
The HBIP have done some very good work within the town, if nobody ever tried anything, nothing would be achieved. Anyone that works voluntarily deserves credit. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 13

10:03am Mon 2 Jun 14

telstar1962 says...

I think co-opting should only be used in more rare circumstances, because if you have less elected representatives than co-opted, this could cause problems.

Suppose a sub-committee can now be formed to decide the difference between Big Projects and Little Projects. lol
I think co-opting should only be used in more rare circumstances, because if you have less elected representatives than co-opted, this could cause problems. Suppose a sub-committee can now be formed to decide the difference between Big Projects and Little Projects. lol telstar1962
  • Score: 4

10:17am Mon 2 Jun 14

Gill Z Martin says...

Co-opting is only used when an election is not called for by the electorate, or if only one candidate stands, or equal candidates to vacancies, as most people are aware. If this is the case, then I believe it perfectly acceptable to co-opt Councillors.
I have met several co-opted Councillors, they, in my view, are far more committed than some of those elected.
Co-opting is only used when an election is not called for by the electorate, or if only one candidate stands, or equal candidates to vacancies, as most people are aware. If this is the case, then I believe it perfectly acceptable to co-opt Councillors. I have met several co-opted Councillors, they, in my view, are far more committed than some of those elected. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 8

11:31am Mon 2 Jun 14

telstar1962 says...

I'm not saying co-opted Councillors cannot make good Councillors.
I just think the rules regarding being co-opted should be altered, as I believe it is in the publics interest to have a largely voted-in representation
I'm not saying co-opted Councillors cannot make good Councillors. I just think the rules regarding being co-opted should be altered, as I believe it is in the publics interest to have a largely voted-in representation telstar1962
  • Score: -12

1:47pm Mon 2 Jun 14

Helston fly on the wall says...

Apart from normal council elections, if there's vacancies mid term and the public don't ask for an election, then too bad, if the public can't be bothered to ask, only needs ten people, then the public shouldn't moan who gets co opted in. Who's to say one that gets voted in will be in the publics interest, might be voted in by their friends but a load of other people might think a certain Cllr is useless. Also if not enough people apply then that's public apathy, so they shouldn't moan about co opting.
Apart from normal council elections, if there's vacancies mid term and the public don't ask for an election, then too bad, if the public can't be bothered to ask, only needs ten people, then the public shouldn't moan who gets co opted in. Who's to say one that gets voted in will be in the publics interest, might be voted in by their friends but a load of other people might think a certain Cllr is useless. Also if not enough people apply then that's public apathy, so they shouldn't moan about co opting. Helston fly on the wall
  • Score: 12

2:06pm Mon 2 Jun 14

Helston fly on the wall says...

krazyitchkatie wrote:
I think it's unfair to criticise volunteers who have done their best with what resources they had available, without also reflecting on the good they've achieved.

But yes, I am very much in support of the council making public where and how they've spent our money. I believe it would be very interesting.
But you know how some of the money has been spent, the town council gave some to the BIP and they gave it away in grants and had a logo, a town guide, and set up a website.
[quote][p][bold]krazyitchkatie[/bold] wrote: I think it's unfair to criticise volunteers who have done their best with what resources they had available, without also reflecting on the good they've achieved. But yes, I am very much in support of the council making public where and how they've spent our money. I believe it would be very interesting.[/p][/quote]But you know how some of the money has been spent, the town council gave some to the BIP and they gave it away in grants and had a logo, a town guide, and set up a website. Helston fly on the wall
  • Score: 11

2:10pm Mon 2 Jun 14

krazyitchkatie says...

Helston fly on the wall wrote:
krazyitchkatie wrote:
I think it's unfair to criticise volunteers who have done their best with what resources they had available, without also reflecting on the good they've achieved.

But yes, I am very much in support of the council making public where and how they've spent our money. I believe it would be very interesting.
But you know how some of the money has been spent, the town council gave some to the BIP and they gave it away in grants and had a logo, a town guide, and set up a website.
What is your point in relation to my comment? My comment being that I think the council should make their spending of our money available for all to see.
[quote][p][bold]Helston fly on the wall[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]krazyitchkatie[/bold] wrote: I think it's unfair to criticise volunteers who have done their best with what resources they had available, without also reflecting on the good they've achieved. But yes, I am very much in support of the council making public where and how they've spent our money. I believe it would be very interesting.[/p][/quote]But you know how some of the money has been spent, the town council gave some to the BIP and they gave it away in grants and had a logo, a town guide, and set up a website.[/p][/quote]What is your point in relation to my comment? My comment being that I think the council should make their spending of our money available for all to see. krazyitchkatie
  • Score: -12

6:40pm Mon 2 Jun 14

Gill Z Martin says...

telstar1962 wrote:
I'm not saying co-opted Councillors cannot make good Councillors.
I just think the rules regarding being co-opted should be altered, as I believe it is in the publics interest to have a largely voted-in representation
How would you alter the rules feasibly for it to work? I personally do not have a problem with the procedure of co-opting Councillors, they are after all, only volunteers at town/parish level. There are good, and perhaps not so good, Councillors both elected and co-opted. I do believe Cornwall Councillors should be elected however, as they are paid an allowance. Having said that, I cannot see they have any other option if a vacancy arises and only one person stands.
[quote][p][bold]telstar1962[/bold] wrote: I'm not saying co-opted Councillors cannot make good Councillors. I just think the rules regarding being co-opted should be altered, as I believe it is in the publics interest to have a largely voted-in representation[/p][/quote]How would you alter the rules feasibly for it to work? I personally do not have a problem with the procedure of co-opting Councillors, they are after all, only volunteers at town/parish level. There are good, and perhaps not so good, Councillors both elected and co-opted. I do believe Cornwall Councillors should be elected however, as they are paid an allowance. Having said that, I cannot see they have any other option if a vacancy arises and only one person stands. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 8

9:16pm Mon 2 Jun 14

telstar1962 says...

My opinion is that if a Town Council is in a position where more than 50% of Councillors are co-opted, then the Council should at least make the Town residents aware that this is the case, ie being represented by unelected persons.

As Gillian says, in her experience,most unelected (or co-opted) persons are good, the question arises as to how a Town or Parish maintains an adequate level of elected persons, given the general apathy for these vacancies

Anyway, lets hope there are lots of Helston volunteers with a ladder and paint brushes
My opinion is that if a Town Council is in a position where more than 50% of Councillors are co-opted, then the Council should at least make the Town residents aware that this is the case, ie being represented by unelected persons. As Gillian says, in her experience,most unelected (or co-opted) persons are good, the question arises as to how a Town or Parish maintains an adequate level of elected persons, given the general apathy for these vacancies Anyway, lets hope there are lots of Helston volunteers with a ladder and paint brushes telstar1962
  • Score: -4

9:29pm Mon 2 Jun 14

krazyitchkatie says...

telstar1962 wrote:
My opinion is that if a Town Council is in a position where more than 50% of Councillors are co-opted, then the Council should at least make the Town residents aware that this is the case, ie being represented by unelected persons.

As Gillian says, in her experience,most unelected (or co-opted) persons are good, the question arises as to how a Town or Parish maintains an adequate level of elected persons, given the general apathy for these vacancies

Anyway, lets hope there are lots of Helston volunteers with a ladder and paint brushes
Don't worry I have a whole list of helpful volunteers who are handy with a pot of paint :-)
[quote][p][bold]telstar1962[/bold] wrote: My opinion is that if a Town Council is in a position where more than 50% of Councillors are co-opted, then the Council should at least make the Town residents aware that this is the case, ie being represented by unelected persons. As Gillian says, in her experience,most unelected (or co-opted) persons are good, the question arises as to how a Town or Parish maintains an adequate level of elected persons, given the general apathy for these vacancies Anyway, lets hope there are lots of Helston volunteers with a ladder and paint brushes[/p][/quote]Don't worry I have a whole list of helpful volunteers who are handy with a pot of paint :-) krazyitchkatie
  • Score: -10

10:59pm Mon 2 Jun 14

ronedgcumbe says...

telstar1962 wrote:
My opinion is that if a Town Council is in a position where more than 50% of Councillors are co-opted, then the Council should at least make the Town residents aware that this is the case, ie being represented by unelected persons.

As Gillian says, in her experience,most unelected (or co-opted) persons are good, the question arises as to how a Town or Parish maintains an adequate level of elected persons, given the general apathy for these vacancies

Anyway, lets hope there are lots of Helston volunteers with a ladder and paint brushes
I do not know of any councillors in Helston who are co-opted .
The last election in Helston only resulted in a voting syndicate which has resulted in very weak town council representation.
The situation with the 106 money is now so confused that we will never know who to blame. A great shame and an opportunity that will not return.
[quote][p][bold]telstar1962[/bold] wrote: My opinion is that if a Town Council is in a position where more than 50% of Councillors are co-opted, then the Council should at least make the Town residents aware that this is the case, ie being represented by unelected persons. As Gillian says, in her experience,most unelected (or co-opted) persons are good, the question arises as to how a Town or Parish maintains an adequate level of elected persons, given the general apathy for these vacancies Anyway, lets hope there are lots of Helston volunteers with a ladder and paint brushes[/p][/quote]I do not know of any councillors in Helston who are co-opted . The last election in Helston only resulted in a voting syndicate which has resulted in very weak town council representation. The situation with the 106 money is now so confused that we will never know who to blame. A great shame and an opportunity that will not return. ronedgcumbe
  • Score: -5

4:30am Tue 3 Jun 14

Gill Z Martin says...

One Helston Councillor was co-opted because he was the only person to stand for the vacancy that arose relatively recently.
The town council contains a diverse range of people all trying their best to do what is right for Helston. They are all volunteers, had no training for their positions, and along with the HBIP are making progress with improvements to the town.
Perhaps liaising with the Cornwall Councillors a little more closely in the future would be beneficial to the speed and progress that is made, particularly with things such as painting the finger posts, seeing as they belong to Cornwall Council.
One Helston Councillor was co-opted because he was the only person to stand for the vacancy that arose relatively recently. The town council contains a diverse range of people all trying their best to do what is right for Helston. They are all volunteers, had no training for their positions, and along with the HBIP are making progress with improvements to the town. Perhaps liaising with the Cornwall Councillors a little more closely in the future would be beneficial to the speed and progress that is made, particularly with things such as painting the finger posts, seeing as they belong to Cornwall Council. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 6

4:47am Tue 3 Jun 14

Gill Z Martin says...

Incidentally, I believe a couple of the Councillors were elected unopposed at the last election, for the ward in which they stood. Whilst I agree with the principle that telstar mentions, of informing residents if a large percentage of Councillors are unelected, I very much doubt it would make much difference, as clearly a very small percentage of the local population stand for election.
I would also think a bigger problem is getting people to actually vote, perhaps if there was not so much apathy in voting we might see a different picture at election time.
Incidentally, I believe a couple of the Councillors were elected unopposed at the last election, for the ward in which they stood. Whilst I agree with the principle that telstar mentions, of informing residents if a large percentage of Councillors are unelected, I very much doubt it would make much difference, as clearly a very small percentage of the local population stand for election. I would also think a bigger problem is getting people to actually vote, perhaps if there was not so much apathy in voting we might see a different picture at election time. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 9

7:03am Tue 3 Jun 14

ronedgcumbe says...

Co- opting and elected unopposed are very different as with the former you need to be interviewed by the sitting councillors and they decide suitability. An option I would never consider.
I think in Helston moving the polling station would certainly help as with the percentages, the chapel is very unsuitable as is it very awkward for parking.
Increasing the turnout would I think improve the quality of councillor.
Co- opting and elected unopposed are very different as with the former you need to be interviewed by the sitting councillors and they decide suitability. An option I would never consider. I think in Helston moving the polling station would certainly help as with the percentages, the chapel is very unsuitable as is it very awkward for parking. Increasing the turnout would I think improve the quality of councillor. ronedgcumbe
  • Score: 6

8:02am Tue 3 Jun 14

telstar1962 says...

Gill Z Martin wrote:
Incidentally, I believe a couple of the Councillors were elected unopposed at the last election, for the ward in which they stood. Whilst I agree with the principle that telstar mentions, of informing residents if a large percentage of Councillors are unelected, I very much doubt it would make much difference, as clearly a very small percentage of the local population stand for election.
I would also think a bigger problem is getting people to actually vote, perhaps if there was not so much apathy in voting we might see a different picture at election time.
It's a worrying trend that people just do not vote in the numbers/% who once did

I can honestly say that since I was eligible to vote, at 18 or 21, I have voted at every election whether European, General Election, Local Council/Parish

The last European elections just showed that apathy reigns, and that UKIP came first in the overall poll with a grand total of about 8.75% of the total electorate voting for that Party.
[quote][p][bold]Gill Z Martin[/bold] wrote: Incidentally, I believe a couple of the Councillors were elected unopposed at the last election, for the ward in which they stood. Whilst I agree with the principle that telstar mentions, of informing residents if a large percentage of Councillors are unelected, I very much doubt it would make much difference, as clearly a very small percentage of the local population stand for election. I would also think a bigger problem is getting people to actually vote, perhaps if there was not so much apathy in voting we might see a different picture at election time.[/p][/quote]It's a worrying trend that people just do not vote in the numbers/% who once did I can honestly say that since I was eligible to vote, at 18 or 21, I have voted at every election whether European, General Election, Local Council/Parish The last European elections just showed that apathy reigns, and that UKIP came first in the overall poll with a grand total of about 8.75% of the total electorate voting for that Party. telstar1962
  • Score: 8

8:02am Tue 3 Jun 14

telstar1962 says...

Gill Z Martin wrote:
Incidentally, I believe a couple of the Councillors were elected unopposed at the last election, for the ward in which they stood. Whilst I agree with the principle that telstar mentions, of informing residents if a large percentage of Councillors are unelected, I very much doubt it would make much difference, as clearly a very small percentage of the local population stand for election.
I would also think a bigger problem is getting people to actually vote, perhaps if there was not so much apathy in voting we might see a different picture at election time.
It's a worrying trend that people just do not vote in the numbers/% who once did

I can honestly say that since I was eligible to vote, at 18 or 21, I have voted at every election whether European, General Election, Local Council/Parish

The last European elections just showed that apathy reigns, and that UKIP came first in the overall poll with a grand total of about 8.75% of the total electorate voting for that Party.
[quote][p][bold]Gill Z Martin[/bold] wrote: Incidentally, I believe a couple of the Councillors were elected unopposed at the last election, for the ward in which they stood. Whilst I agree with the principle that telstar mentions, of informing residents if a large percentage of Councillors are unelected, I very much doubt it would make much difference, as clearly a very small percentage of the local population stand for election. I would also think a bigger problem is getting people to actually vote, perhaps if there was not so much apathy in voting we might see a different picture at election time.[/p][/quote]It's a worrying trend that people just do not vote in the numbers/% who once did I can honestly say that since I was eligible to vote, at 18 or 21, I have voted at every election whether European, General Election, Local Council/Parish The last European elections just showed that apathy reigns, and that UKIP came first in the overall poll with a grand total of about 8.75% of the total electorate voting for that Party. telstar1962
  • Score: 8

9:19am Tue 3 Jun 14

Gill Z Martin says...

ronedgcumbe wrote:
Co- opting and elected unopposed are very different as with the former you need to be interviewed by the sitting councillors and they decide suitability. An option I would never consider.
I think in Helston moving the polling station would certainly help as with the percentages, the chapel is very unsuitable as is it very awkward for parking.
Increasing the turnout would I think improve the quality of councillor.
I agree they are very different, but surely to be interviewed and voted on by existing Councillors, and co-opted in, would be better than being elected unopposed, that way there has at least been some sort of selection process and genuine voting. Unless of course there is only one candidate applying, in which case I suppose that leaves existing Councillors no choice but to accept the person. Whichever way anyone joins the council it does not prevent them from being a good councillor. I think time proves who are the most dedicated and/or effectual Councillors.
I agree the location of a polling station can help, however, I do not think it would make everyone vote, I believe there will always be those who will not bother.
[quote][p][bold]ronedgcumbe[/bold] wrote: Co- opting and elected unopposed are very different as with the former you need to be interviewed by the sitting councillors and they decide suitability. An option I would never consider. I think in Helston moving the polling station would certainly help as with the percentages, the chapel is very unsuitable as is it very awkward for parking. Increasing the turnout would I think improve the quality of councillor.[/p][/quote]I agree they are very different, but surely to be interviewed and voted on by existing Councillors, and co-opted in, would be better than being elected unopposed, that way there has at least been some sort of selection process and genuine voting. Unless of course there is only one candidate applying, in which case I suppose that leaves existing Councillors no choice but to accept the person. Whichever way anyone joins the council it does not prevent them from being a good councillor. I think time proves who are the most dedicated and/or effectual Councillors. I agree the location of a polling station can help, however, I do not think it would make everyone vote, I believe there will always be those who will not bother. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 7

9:24am Tue 3 Jun 14

Gill Z Martin says...

telstar1962 wrote:
Gill Z Martin wrote:
Incidentally, I believe a couple of the Councillors were elected unopposed at the last election, for the ward in which they stood. Whilst I agree with the principle that telstar mentions, of informing residents if a large percentage of Councillors are unelected, I very much doubt it would make much difference, as clearly a very small percentage of the local population stand for election.
I would also think a bigger problem is getting people to actually vote, perhaps if there was not so much apathy in voting we might see a different picture at election time.
It's a worrying trend that people just do not vote in the numbers/% who once did

I can honestly say that since I was eligible to vote, at 18 or 21, I have voted at every election whether European, General Election, Local Council/Parish

The last European elections just showed that apathy reigns, and that UKIP came first in the overall poll with a grand total of about 8.75% of the total electorate voting for that Party.
I too have always voted at every election whether on national or local level.
[quote][p][bold]telstar1962[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gill Z Martin[/bold] wrote: Incidentally, I believe a couple of the Councillors were elected unopposed at the last election, for the ward in which they stood. Whilst I agree with the principle that telstar mentions, of informing residents if a large percentage of Councillors are unelected, I very much doubt it would make much difference, as clearly a very small percentage of the local population stand for election. I would also think a bigger problem is getting people to actually vote, perhaps if there was not so much apathy in voting we might see a different picture at election time.[/p][/quote]It's a worrying trend that people just do not vote in the numbers/% who once did I can honestly say that since I was eligible to vote, at 18 or 21, I have voted at every election whether European, General Election, Local Council/Parish The last European elections just showed that apathy reigns, and that UKIP came first in the overall poll with a grand total of about 8.75% of the total electorate voting for that Party.[/p][/quote]I too have always voted at every election whether on national or local level. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 8

4:32pm Wed 4 Jun 14

krazyitchkatie says...

Haha, how does my comment about having a list of volunteers attract thumbs down?

*goes off to curl up in a corner and cry*

LOL
Haha, how does my comment about having a list of volunteers attract thumbs down? *goes off to curl up in a corner and cry* LOL krazyitchkatie
  • Score: 6

7:14pm Wed 4 Jun 14

Helston fly on the wall says...

You said in one post that the BIP were accused of criminal damage, and you are surprised people thumb down the though of volunteers you say iyou have! I think the BIP are ok, but ive heard a lot that dont think they are up to much.
You said in one post that the BIP were accused of criminal damage, and you are surprised people thumb down the though of volunteers you say iyou have! I think the BIP are ok, but ive heard a lot that dont think they are up to much. Helston fly on the wall
  • Score: 5

7:36pm Wed 4 Jun 14

krazyitchkatie says...

Helston fly on the wall wrote:
You said in one post that the BIP were accused of criminal damage, and you are surprised people thumb down the though of volunteers you say iyou have! I think the BIP are ok, but ive heard a lot that dont think they are up to much.
The volunteers aren't members of the bip.

But the accusation of criminal damage was not because anything was damaged, it was because we got on and fixed/painted public things and the contractors who were meant to maintain them didnt like us showing them up.
[quote][p][bold]Helston fly on the wall[/bold] wrote: You said in one post that the BIP were accused of criminal damage, and you are surprised people thumb down the though of volunteers you say iyou have! I think the BIP are ok, but ive heard a lot that dont think they are up to much.[/p][/quote]The volunteers aren't members of the bip. But the accusation of criminal damage was not because anything was damaged, it was because we got on and fixed/painted public things and the contractors who were meant to maintain them didnt like us showing them up. krazyitchkatie
  • Score: 2

8:33pm Wed 4 Jun 14

Gill Z Martin says...

krazyitchkatie wrote:
Helston fly on the wall wrote:
You said in one post that the BIP were accused of criminal damage, and you are surprised people thumb down the though of volunteers you say iyou have! I think the BIP are ok, but ive heard a lot that dont think they are up to much.
The volunteers aren't members of the bip.

But the accusation of criminal damage was not because anything was damaged, it was because we got on and fixed/painted public things and the contractors who were meant to maintain them didnt like us showing them up.
I do hope the council are not paying contractors for work they have not done then.
Sorry Katie, just voted your penultimate post up, perhaps I should not have, as I do not like the fact you went off to a corner to cry :)
[quote][p][bold]krazyitchkatie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Helston fly on the wall[/bold] wrote: You said in one post that the BIP were accused of criminal damage, and you are surprised people thumb down the though of volunteers you say iyou have! I think the BIP are ok, but ive heard a lot that dont think they are up to much.[/p][/quote]The volunteers aren't members of the bip. But the accusation of criminal damage was not because anything was damaged, it was because we got on and fixed/painted public things and the contractors who were meant to maintain them didnt like us showing them up.[/p][/quote]I do hope the council are not paying contractors for work they have not done then. Sorry Katie, just voted your penultimate post up, perhaps I should not have, as I do not like the fact you went off to a corner to cry :) Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 5

8:42pm Wed 4 Jun 14

Gill Z Martin says...

Helston fly on the wall wrote:
You said in one post that the BIP were accused of criminal damage, and you are surprised people thumb down the though of volunteers you say iyou have! I think the BIP are ok, but ive heard a lot that dont think they are up to much.
I have heard a lot of people say what a good job the HBIP do in various ways, and I agree.
[quote][p][bold]Helston fly on the wall[/bold] wrote: You said in one post that the BIP were accused of criminal damage, and you are surprised people thumb down the though of volunteers you say iyou have! I think the BIP are ok, but ive heard a lot that dont think they are up to much.[/p][/quote]I have heard a lot of people say what a good job the HBIP do in various ways, and I agree. Gill Z Martin
  • Score: 4

11:40am Thu 5 Jun 14

krazyitchkatie says...

Thanks GZM :)
Thanks GZM :) krazyitchkatie
  • Score: 3

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